tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9189981194016418049.post4034839374507100953..comments2024-03-08T16:52:11.999-06:00Comments on APOLOGIA: Genetic FallacyHendrik van der Breggenhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04149481975577863835noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9189981194016418049.post-59459951149421728672011-05-01T17:23:01.009-05:002011-05-01T17:23:01.009-05:00Hello again Kelly,
Interesting comment. :-)
I th...Hello again Kelly,<br /><br />Interesting comment. :-)<br /><br />I think that the strength of my point remains, even if in your experience you've never come across anyone who has attempted to dismiss the truth of a religious belief solely on the basis of its genesis. It seems to me that the strength of my point remains when it's taken in its appropriate context. <br /><br />You seem to be attempting to cast doubt on whether there actually is an appropriate context where my point applies. Is there such a context? That is, does it ever happen that someone wishes to dismiss the truth of a religious belief solely on the basis of its genesis? <br /><br />I think that the answer is Yes. In my experience (mostly in secular circles) the truth of core religious beliefs often has been (faultily and hastily) dismissed because such beliefs originate, it is alleged, in personal/ social usefulness and so have been merely culturally constructed and inculcated. (Of course, such religious beliefs can include claims concerning, as you say, an "over-simplified perception" of the consequences of having a mistaken belief system.)<br /><br />Am I the only one who has had such an experience? I'm inclined to think not. When a fallacy is given its own name (e.g., genetic fallacy), such naming is an indication that particular instances of a general mistaken pattern in argument have happened so often in human experience that it is useful for logicians to label the mistake, and so the pattern of faulty argument enters into critical thinking textbooks. Here, then, are a couple of textbook examples of the genetic fallacy:<br /><br />• "Religion results from human beings inventing an idea of God so they can have an ideal image of what they would like to be themselves. So all these religious beliefs about a god who existed before he created the world are simply false." Trudy Govier, <i>A Practical Study of Argument</i>, 6th edition (Thomson/ Wadsworth, 2005), p. 316.<br /><br />• "[T]he only reason we now believe in God is because we were raised as Catholics…." S. Morris Engel, <i>With Good Reason: An Introduction to Informal Fallacies</i> (Bedford/ St. Martin's, 2000), p. 216.<br /><br />These examples do not exhaust the particular instances of the general genetic fallacy, but they provide pretty good evidence for thinking that the experience I described is not at all peculiar (and limited) to me.<br /><br />Hence, my point remains—and remains strong.<br /><br />I hope that the above is helpful.<br /><br />Best regards, <br />HendrikHendrik van der Breggenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04149481975577863835noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9189981194016418049.post-19626131550078267422011-04-26T21:55:56.911-05:002011-04-26T21:55:56.911-05:00Hello Dr. V,
Having blogged for a few years, when...Hello Dr. V,<br /><br />Having blogged for a few years, when I see a comment responded to as "interesting," my experience is that it is usually followed by a "but," and then an attempt to refocus the person to the point of the post...<br /><br />Although I might not have given sufficient evidence, I understood you point as philosophical. My observation was based on my experience, and was that when I have heard phrases appealing to the genesis of a belief system, the appeal has never been itself the basis for an evaluation of the truth or falisty of the claim.<br /><br />Rather, the appeal is made in response to an over-simplified perception that a person will find himself unfortunately judged for espousing the wrong belief system. <br /><br />As you note, a question should move from "where I grew up" to for example, "do I have good reasons for thinking that Jesus is God and Muhammad isn't?" <br /><br />The question points to the need to evaluate a claim on the basis of its merits, but, I don't think most people engage with belief in this way. I think most people are conditioned into the "logic" of that which has been a part of their lives since their earliest memories. In which case, the extent to which they are to be held responsible for mistaken belief, is just that, a question. <br /><br />And so, to repeat, I think you've made your point regarding the example you identify as being "popular in our present postmodern era." But I wonder of the strength of the point, since in my experience I've never come across anyone who wishes to dismiss truth or falsity on the grounds of genesis of belief (my experience is they only want to dismiss a certain level of responsibility...).<br /><br />Perhaps you've met such people however...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9189981194016418049.post-7470246850851041002011-04-24T21:30:53.730-05:002011-04-24T21:30:53.730-05:00Hi Kelly,
Thanks for your interesting comment. Pl...Hi Kelly,<br /><br />Thanks for your interesting comment. Please keep in mind that the point of the present installment of my column (and its examples) is that if one discounts the truth of a belief because of the belief’s originating psychological or social factors when relevant rational truth-related factors are being neglected, then one incurs the genetic fallacy. In other words, my column has to do with logical or epistemological matters, not theological matters or questions of who hates and who doesn’t hate God or questions of who is and who isn’t damned.<br /><br />Nevertheless, I will say this about the topics you raise: From what I gather from reading the New Testament (and, say, Richard Dawkins’ <i>The God Delusion</i>), it does look like some people have a "hate on" for God; I also gather from reading the New Testament (and from some personal experience) that some people choose to cut themselves off from intimate union with God. Having said this, I quickly add that it is best that specific judgments about who truly hates God and who, if anyone (whether Christian, Muslim, or whomever), will actually be cut off from God <i>eternally</i> should be judgments that are left up to God. In addition, I quickly add that we should remember that the New Testament tells us to proclaim (and defend) the truth of Jesus' resurrection and the accompanying good news (John 3:16).<br /><br />Happy Easter to you too!<br /><br />HendrikHendrik van der Breggenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04149481975577863835noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9189981194016418049.post-66057330230686478352011-04-23T21:22:24.039-05:002011-04-23T21:22:24.039-05:00I have heard before phrases built upon the "I...I have heard before phrases built upon the "I was born in a Christian country..." or "He was born in a Muslim country," but in fairness to those I heard, it was never in the context of "therefore the truths of such systems should be rejected." In my context at least, these wouldn't be examples of such a fallacy.<br /><br />Such comments were brought up in the context of pluralism, and how we understand the possibility of salvation. <br /><br />In a series of homilies I recently read by Joseph Ratzinger (from the early 60's), he observed that everything Christians believe about God, and know about humans prevents them from accepting that beyond the limits of the Church there is no salvation. Ratzinger said that we Christians are no longer able to think of our neighbours --- decent and respectable people --- and in many ways better than we Christians, as being damned simply because they are not Catholic. <br /><br />To that extent, when I hear comments about someone being born in a Muslim country, I am hearing "He's not a Christian, NOT because he hates them or is disinterested in the God they present, but because he was born in a country where everyone else is Muslim." <br /><br />Such a comment is intended to convey that this should have no bearing on his capacity to respond to God as a Muslim, and I have no problem with this sentiment, even if I do believe that when such a person encounters Christ in a more personal way their life will be more fulfilled. <br /><br />By the way, Happy Easter...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9189981194016418049.post-7857941305953882032011-04-14T11:12:12.214-05:002011-04-14T11:12:12.214-05:00Thanks for your comment, Daryl.
"Bulverism&q...Thanks for your comment, Daryl.<br /><br />"Bulverism" is one of my favourite essays by Lewis, too. And I really like Peter Kreeft's work as well. Lewis's writings influenced me quite a bit when I first became (was becoming) a Christian, and Lewis's work helped me much in my studies in philosophy. Ditto for Kreeft.<br /><br />About the speaker you mention and his/her follow-up comment (about Christianity being unfair), I would add the following for the sake of clarification. A person who asserts the claim that X is unfair has to shoulder a burden of proof for that claim, i.e., the person should shoulder some responsibility for providing grounds/ argument for believing the claim. Yes (as you correctly point out), the claim that X is unfair shouldn't be explained away socially or psychologically unless I've first shown that the claim is mistaken. Nevertheless (and here is the point of my clarification), the speaker's claim that X is unfair need not be accepted as true merely because I haven't shown that the claim itself is wrong. The speaker's assertion of a claim is not enough; substantiation for the claim is also needed.<br /><br />For additional discussion on the burden of proof issue vis-à-vis claims concerning God's existence, see my December 28 2009 replies to my agnostic friend Jordan Kotick <a href="http://apologiabyhendrikvanderbreggen.blogspot.com/2009/12/believing-christmas-because-of-easter.html" rel="nofollow">here</a>.<br /> <br />Best regards,<br />HendrikHendrik van der Breggenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04149481975577863835noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9189981194016418049.post-65891384924436952852011-04-11T15:38:51.651-05:002011-04-11T15:38:51.651-05:00Bulverism is one of my favourite essays by Lewis. ...Bulverism is one of my favourite essays by Lewis. I also enjoyed the comments on the genetic fallacy in Kreeft's "Between Heaven and Hell". Thanks for a good column. It is especially pertinent for those who say, "You're a Christian because of where you were born and the family in which you were raised." Even if I am, the observation says nothing about the truth of my belief. Then the speaker will follow up with, "Therefore I don't believe this Christian thing because it's simply unfair." One could argue that the speaker only says this because of the prevailing societal thought-patterns in which we live. That observation also may be true; but I have to show that the statement itself is wrong (in which your column helps), and only then ask how the speaker came to make so elementary a mistake.Climenheisehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01989459133238230712noreply@blogger.com